Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login. New Registrations are disabled.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline PaulM  
#1 Posted : 21 March 2014 16:21:15(UTC)
PaulM

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Utah

I'm starting a book project (Structures for Architects) and I would like to do my examples in SMath for a long list of reasons. Primarily the accuracy and updateability, but also for the graphical, visual nature and ability to insert images.

I would like to be able to show an equation in letter form, then populate the letters with the actual numbers, then get the result.

I can't seem to figure out how to get this intermediate step, where SMath shows the numbers used in the calculation. I understand I define these before the equation, or before I ask for the result. However, I would really like to see the actual numbers in equation form.

Like this:
D=50 psf
L=80 psf
w=1.2D+1.6L
w=1.2(50)+1.6(80)>>>>>>> I like the students to be able to see exactly where the numbers go.
w=188

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Also, if anyone has developed examples for structural engineering problems, I would love to see how you set things up.

Regards-
Paul

Wanna join the discussion?! Login to your SMath Studio Forum forum account. New Registrations are disabled.

Offline kilele  
#2 Posted : 21 March 2014 17:01:37(UTC)
kilele


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 393

Was thanked: 132 time(s) in 113 post(s)
Your suggestion has been discussed in this forum before, you know how I'm usually pedantic about citing my posts over and over again Good
We are already just 4 people who have made the same feature request, see my proposal for expansions on the 5th post of this thread :
http://en.smath.info/for...ues-with-definition.aspx

Edited by user 21 March 2014 17:14:53(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline mkraska  
#3 Posted : 21 March 2014 20:53:14(UTC)
mkraska


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,986
Germany

Was thanked: 1124 time(s) in 721 post(s)
Originally Posted by: PaulM Go to Quoted Post
I would like to be able to show an equation in letter form, then populate the letters with the actual numbers, then get the result.

Not exactly, what you requested (you need to place parens in the symbolic formula if you want to have them in the numeric one). but perhaps fairly close.

However, if I see students blowing up reports by such numeric formulae, they score no point by that. For me, it is sufficient to see that the formula is correct and the correct data is used (just documented by correct assignments of values to symbols). In a system like SMath Studio I would expect the result to be correct under these conditions. That makes the review much easier, because normally, it is much easier to judge if the input and the formulae are correct, than to verify the numeric calculation.

But this is a matter of taste and SMath is able to serve more than one of them.
mkraska attached the following image(s):
opti.PNG
Martin Kraska

Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://smath.com/wiki/SMath_with_Plugins.ashx
Offline kilele  
#4 Posted : 21 March 2014 21:50:02(UTC)
kilele


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 30/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 393

Was thanked: 132 time(s) in 113 post(s)
even a simpler solution for this feature request, what if double parentheses were allowed to tell smath to display an expansion instead of a regular parsing, something like :
w:=1.2((D))+1.6((L))
D=50 psf
L=80 psf
w=1.2(50)+1.6(80)

Edit :
obviously it should be another symbol different from parentheses like double angle brackets《 》

Edited by user 22 March 2014 02:34:23(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked kilele for this useful post.
on 21/03/2014(UTC)
Offline experimentator  
#5 Posted : 21 March 2014 22:18:46(UTC)
experimentator


Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 21
Spain

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: PaulM Go to Quoted Post
Also, if anyone has developed examples for structural engineering problems, I would love to see how you set things up.


It's not exactly what you are looking for, but maybe helps. I have the purpose to upload in the future more examples with Smath in an educational way.

http://ingenieria-estructuras.blogspot.com.es
Learning by doing
Offline experimentator  
#6 Posted : 22 March 2014 14:33:11(UTC)
experimentator


Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 21
Spain

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
One solution might be write the calculations twice. It's not optimal, but it works. An added problem is the units.
experimentator attached the following image(s):
calculation.jpg
Learning by doing
thanks 1 user thanked experimentator for this useful post.
on 24/03/2014(UTC)
Offline mkraska  
#7 Posted : 22 March 2014 16:22:32(UTC)
mkraska


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,986
Germany

Was thanked: 1124 time(s) in 721 post(s)
Originally Posted by: experimentator Go to Quoted Post
An added problem is the units.
The cm unit seems to be placed as separate region (text or math) right to the result. In order to get this right, you might place another region showing 4 to fake the exponent. Or just use a math region.

I would not vote in favour of writing the same input twice. If you want to change an input value, you would need to scan the complete worksheet for occurences of the values. What if a stupid user assumes that he is done with assigning the values to the corresponding variables? That sounds dangerous to me.

In the given example, the parens around the values help a lot with readibility. Thus, perhaps it would be a good idea to generally put non-optimized substitutions within added parentheses as default SMath behaviour. Then the spurious parens could be removed.

File Attachment(s):
Nebenrechnung.sm (8kb) downloaded 52 time(s).
mkraska attached the following image(s):
nebenrechnung.PNG
Martin Kraska

Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://smath.com/wiki/SMath_with_Plugins.ashx
Offline experimentator  
#8 Posted : 22 March 2014 18:07:46(UTC)
experimentator


Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 26/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 21
Spain

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: mkraska Go to Quoted Post
The cm unit seems to be placed as separate region (text or math) right to the result.


That's a mistake of me, it should be cm^4 and yes, it is wroten in a text region.

Originally Posted by: mkraska Go to Quoted Post
I would not vote in favour of writing the same input twice. If you want to change an input value, you would need to scan the complete worksheet for occurences of the values.


That's of course another problem. Your solution without parens seems to be a better alternativ. Other question is if the purpose of the document is to show the equations to the students or let the students work with it too.
Learning by doing
Offline PaulM  
#9 Posted : 22 March 2014 19:07:35(UTC)
PaulM

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Utah

I appreciate the responses!

Martin- Turning off Optimization gets me closer. For some reason SMath is displaying with fractions, not decimals. It gets a little odd looking.

b=(('m/500)^2+12*({381*'m}/5000)^2)^{1/2}

w={2*(3*50+4*80)}/5

How do I turn off the fraction thing?

Also, is there a way to change the default unit set. The primary units for the book will be English. I can do a 'unit command at the end of each expression, but would prefer not to.

Experimentator-
Thanks for the examples. These will be enlightening.

Offline mkraska  
#10 Posted : 22 March 2014 20:06:25(UTC)
mkraska


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 15/04/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,986
Germany

Was thanked: 1124 time(s) in 721 post(s)
Originally Posted by: PaulM Go to Quoted Post
For some reason SMath is displaying with fractions, not decimals. It gets a little odd looking.

You need to switch off optimization for the input assignments as well. Hover with the mouse over the definitions and see how they are stored.

As to the units: That is the very first issue which Andrey has put into the new bug tracking system (see violet bugs button on top of the page)
Martin Kraska

Pre-configured portable distribution of SMath Studio: https://smath.com/wiki/SMath_with_Plugins.ashx
Offline PaulM  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2014 15:44:27(UTC)
PaulM

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 21/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Utah

Terrific! That gives me exactly what I was hoping for.

Thanks!
Offline Michaelm9w1  
#12 Posted : 09 March 2016 23:47:58(UTC)
Michaelm9w1

Rank: Newbie

Groups: Registered
Joined: 09/03/2016(UTC)
Posts: 1
Poland
Location: Tychy

Hello

I have similar problem.

Schowek02.jpg

Is it possibile to display units in 2nd line as kNs, not as kg*m/s^2, or display expression without units?

Thanks
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.