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Offline marks2c  
#21 Posted : 16 February 2022 23:20:28(UTC)
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Thanks overlord. Noted.

I'd not seen Jean's operator-overloading of the units. That isn't something I'd want to do.
Offline Jean Giraud  
#22 Posted : 16 February 2022 23:50:17(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
I'd not seen Jean's operator-overloading of the units. That isn't something I'd want to do.

Original idea from Mathsoft Advisor.
Used when no units exist, id:T/hr [Ton/hr mas flow]
SI is largely incompatible Process Control Instrumentation.
Offline marks2c  
#23 Posted : 16 February 2022 23:50:24(UTC)
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Hi Davide,

What is the best way to get the custom functions plugin?
Offline overlord  
#24 Posted : 17 February 2022 00:03:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
Hi Davide,

What is the best way to get the custom functions plugin?

Install it from Tools > Plugins > Local storage/Online Gallery

You can learn the process from this video.

Regards

https://youtu.be/ynFISN32EV4
Offline Kenny Lemens  
#25 Posted : 01 April 2022 00:59:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
This is getting so close!

I've tried the plus-minus function, but can't get the min or max element values. I suspect this is because the result isn't a maxtrix:


marks2c,

As an alternative to Davide's plugin, you can type the following as a native solution:

KeyPress:
Code:
R1.tot:str2num(strrep(num2str(R1.tot),"sys","mat"))

This should have the effect of changing the your vector into a matrix. As such, you will be able to use lowercase min() and max()

Vector_to_Matrix.jpg

Edited by user 01 April 2022 01:03:20(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling Error

Offline marks2c  
#26 Posted : 01 April 2022 01:50:36(UTC)
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Thank you so much Kenny.

I've now converted to Davide's plugin as it really helps easy understanding, peer reviews, etc:

Screenshot 2022-04-01 115653.png
20220331 TPS3700 Window Comparator Test Points with Tolerances A3.sm (234kb) downloaded 5 time(s).

Edited by user 01 April 2022 01:59:20(UTC)  | Reason: Picture placement

Offline Razonar  
#27 Posted : 01 April 2022 08:49:44(UTC)
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Hi. This version uses the gradient to propagate uncertainties. Although it is not clear to me what the uncertainty of RMM is, more or less the same results are obtained.

img.jpg

20220331 TPS3700 Window Comparator Test Points with Tolerances A3 another ver.sm (229kb) downloaded 10 time(s).

Best regards.
Alvaro.
Offline marks2c  
#28 Posted : 01 April 2022 08:57:57(UTC)
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Thank you so much. I shall dig in and do some more learning. Very greatly appreciated.

The RMM uncertainty is a very poor 'rule of thumb' estimate of the input impedance error based on the meter's measurement accuracy (aka a meter should be 10x more accurate than the thing it is measuring).
Offline Razonar  
#29 Posted : 01 April 2022 09:25:35(UTC)
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Ah, yes. You're right. In such a case, these would be the final results

img.jpg

Best regards.
Alvaro.
Offline Jean Giraud  
#30 Posted : 02 April 2022 14:53:21(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Kenny Lemens Go to Quoted Post
I've tried the plus-minus function, but can't get the min or max element values

Confirmed 10 x more accurate
In Process Control Instrumentation we calibrate
pressure XTR's from Secondary Standard Wallace Tiernam
We have two WT ... alternate calibrate to Ottawa Primary Standard
Your ± exposed in the attached.
Cheers ... Jean.

Stat Incertitude.sm (22kb) downloaded 5 time(s).
Offline marks2c  
#31 Posted : 02 April 2022 22:36:32(UTC)
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Thanks Jean. The 10x thing is sound. The unsound bit is my use of MM accuracy to infer the uncertainty of the input impedance (aka a poor estimate).

One thing I've been meaning to check...

Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
I'd not seen Jean's operator-overloading of the units. That isn't something I'd want to do.

Original idea from Mathsoft Advisor.
Used when no units exist, id:T/hr [Ton/hr mas flow]
SI is largely incompatible Process Control Instrumentation.


We do process control here in Newzild using SI units. In other parts of the world they even do it quite well (LHC, EUV lithography, LIGO etc).

What is it that SI units are missing? Apologies in advance: I'm actually intetrested, rather than just kicking the hornet's nest.




Offline Jean Giraud  
#32 Posted : 03 April 2022 02:31:34(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
We do process control here in Newzild using SI units

I do as well as long as things are converted/compatible
Per say mass flow rate [T/hr] depends upon some SI constants.

Resistance.PNG

Offline Jean Giraud  
#33 Posted : 03 April 2022 20:40:39(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
We do process control here in Newzild ...

If you have general or specific interest in that stuff
please, let me know: I have a huge Compendium.
Cheers ... Jean

Offline marks2c  
#34 Posted : 03 April 2022 22:00:34(UTC)
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Thank you for the kind offer, I have emailed.
Offline marks2c  
#35 Posted : 03 April 2022 22:05:22(UTC)
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Back to the SI units and process control: is the issue with SI units the imperial units?

That seems odd, as the imperial units now have SI definitions (ie imperial measurements are actually metric, but converted to imperial representations).
Offline Jean Giraud  
#36 Posted : 04 April 2022 14:40:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: marks2c Go to Quoted Post
Back to the SI units and process control: is the issue with SI units the imperial units ?

In Process control, steam is accounted in mass flow typical T/hr.
Chemical mixture: ingredients are in mass flow as well as water ...
All that +++ in °C except sub-cryogenic °K.
In short, SI is not a compatible Engineering System.
Between the temperature detector(s) and the reading, there is
a lot of maths to linearize from so few EIT reference points.
Cheers ... Jean.

Offline overlord  
#37 Posted : 05 April 2022 11:42:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
In short, SI is not a compatible Engineering System.

This is maybe the most bizarre, absurd, meatheaded, uninformed babblement came out of Jean's twisted mind.
He single-handedly trashed a working unit system near about a century. What is his replacement for SI?
Same units named with additional single quote and each one of them has value of 1.
He just don't like units and maniacally spread disinformation about them.
Jean's science comprehension is from 1000 BC. He claims only numbers are enough.
He should use matlab or excel or only his TI-84. SMath is not suitable for him.

Dear marks2c, SI units are capable enough. Even imperial system units are defined by SI now.
In SMath they may need some workarounds, especially temperatures, but they are competent.
And as far as I know nothing is wrong with units in SMath, concerning about their definitions.

Regards.
thanks 1 user thanked overlord for this useful post.
on 05/04/2022(UTC)
Offline Jean Giraud  
#38 Posted : 05 April 2022 15:13:54(UTC)
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In that example of 100's Orifice Plate, all process data
are given by the Chemical Engineering team in Engineering Units.
The Consulting Instrumentation Engineer do two things:
1. best find "ΔP[Pa] ... User XTR" to minimize the models XTR's.
2. calculate the the bore diameter for all 100's plate.
On the turnkey day of the multi billions $ Plant, SI is not invited.

Orifice Plate.PNG
Offline Jean Giraud  
#39 Posted : 05 April 2022 16:34:47(UTC)
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EIT90 fixed points [EIT = Echelle Internationale de Temperature].

eit90.PNG
Offline overlord  
#40 Posted : 05 April 2022 22:46:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
On the turnkey day of the multi billions $ Plant, SI is not invited.

Because they have an incompetent engineer who doesn't know how to work with units.
And there are trillion dollars of work done with using SI units, which sane persons do.
Instead of using SI units, Jean uses stupid coefficients (0.3537, 3.9989, etc).
Funny part is there are SI units everywhere on that example. (kg, °C, bar, Pa, mm)
Using unnecessary numbers doesn't eliminate them actually.
You are just holding your left ear with your right hand.

Look the example below Jean. It is much more readable, deprived of unnecessary convert numbers.
And more flexible too. I can use psi for pressure, easily change diameter to inch, revise temperature to K effortlessly.
Actually V in your example is indeed m/s, you just don't know that you don't know.
Some can make beta calculation with using units also. I just don't have the willpower.

2022-04-05_22-32_1.png
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