Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login. New Registrations are disabled.

Notification

Icon
Error

Login


4 Pages<1234>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Offline efus  
#21 Posted : 24 November 2020 18:58:16(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
... up to You the expert !
Cheers ... Jean

Prova modello permeabilita.sm (130kb) downloaded 12 time(s).



Whistle yap, there is something in the data that screwup the ro2 and rco2 evaluation

Damned fruits, things whit dead things are much more simple Rofl
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline Jean Giraud  
#22 Posted : 24 November 2020 20:01:56(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
yap, there is something in the data that screwup the ro2 and rco2 evaluation

Do you mean you have red ?
Quite right about dead fruits.
Here in Québec, the most poisoned strawberries ... 0 poisoned blueberries.
The most idiotic are kiwis from New Zealand, they grow in Québec smaller size, succulent.

I was reading the paper Adams-Moulton, to some casual exception, they are all
same ballistic approximation ... dn_GearsBDF runs 5 to 10 times faster.
From the attached, please report if you have red evaluation.
If so, it would indicate a bug in your latest SS version.
At the first eventual red occurrence, please attach an *.PDF to see the guilty.

See you soon ... Jean

Prova modello permeabilita.sm (171kb) downloaded 4 time(s).


Offline uni  
#23 Posted : 24 November 2020 20:33:18(UTC)
uni


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Advanced Member
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Man
Russian Federation

Was thanked: 1274 time(s) in 745 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
From the attached, please report if you have red evaluation.
If so, it would indicate a bug in your latest SS version.

No, Jean, do not mislead the man. If something doesn't work, it doesn't mean there is an error. There are alternative probabilities.

Russia ☭ forever
Viacheslav N. Mezentsev
Offline Jean Giraud  
#24 Posted : 24 November 2020 21:04:57(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: uni Go to Quoted Post
No, Jean, do not mislead the man.
If something doesn't work, it doesn't mean there is an error.
There are alternative probabilities.

I presumed my document didn't work as given.
Let's see what does not evaluate.
Cheers Viacheslav ... Jean
Offline efus  
#25 Posted : 24 November 2020 21:10:16(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Yup, isn't a problem of code, is a problem of data.

Now I'm trying to make something different for having an idea of the behaviors.

Basically, I would like to evaluate the two respiration rate at different concentrations, 0%, 5%, 10%, 15% and 20%, so to be able to leave it constant in the ODE splitting the curve into 3 portions.



In any case, there is something in this model that I haven't understand for sure.
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline efus  
#26 Posted : 25 November 2020 00:51:34(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Dry Ok, after a little bit of scavenging to find the right data, seems that the implementation of uni works quite well!

I have really to thank you a lot for your help, and also I need to understand better how to use gearsbdf and in general all the things that you has write there!

Now I will add other things and reupload the file.

1111.PNG
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline Jean Giraud  
#27 Posted : 25 November 2020 00:54:51(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
Yup, isn't a problem of code, is a problem of data.
Now I'm trying to make something different for having an idea of the behaviors.
Basically, I would like to evaluate the two respiration rate at different concentrations,
0%, 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% ...
so to be able to leave it constant in the ODE splitting the curve into 3 portions.
In any case, there is something in this model that I haven't understood for sure.

As given, your system depends upon 9 parameters, of which many may be interactive.
In Mathcad/Mathsoft, we can optimize a DE wrt some parameters of the DE.
Up to 4 parameters is no sweat. See image in the attached document.
This is due to the Mathsoft proprietary bloc Given/Minerr, not known possible in Smath.
On the other hand, in Smath, given a data set, we can attempt to fit a model function.
Just to fit a model, the data set need not be clean. Do you have experimental data ?
In Mathcad, you can set the ODEsolve as a function, if that is possible our friend
Viacheslav will surely reply. On my side, will cogitate.
Cheers ... Jean

ODE Aminohippuric MCD.sm (165kb) downloaded 7 time(s).
Offline efus  
#28 Posted : 25 November 2020 01:10:26(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
Yup, isn't a problem of code, is a problem of data.
Now I'm trying to make something different for having an idea of the behaviors.
Basically, I would like to evaluate the two respiration rate at different concentrations,
0%, 5%, 10%, 15% and 20% ...
so to be able to leave it constant in the ODE splitting the curve into 3 portions.
In any case, there is something in this model that I haven't understood for sure.

As given, your system depends upon 9 parameters, of which many may be interactive.
In Mathcad/Mathsoft, we can optimize a DE wrt some parameters of the DE.
Up to 4 parameters is no sweat. See image in the attached document.
This is due to the Mathsoft proprietary bloc Given/Minerr, not known possible in Smath.
On the other hand, in Smath, given a data set, we can attempt to fit a model function.
Just to fit a model, the data set need not be clean. Do you have experimental data ?
In Mathcad, you can set the ODEsolve as a function, if that is possible our friend
Viacheslav will surely reply. On my side, will cogitate.
Cheers ... Jean

ODE Aminohippuric MCD.sm (165kb) downloaded 7 time(s).


This is a really interesting material and I thank you a lot for have share it!

I really need to become more familiar with the software.

In your opinion the book SMath for Physics by Bernard V Liengme is a good investment of time and money?
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline Jean Giraud  
#29 Posted : 25 November 2020 05:02:14(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
In your opinion the book SMath for Physics by Bernard V Liengme is a good investment of time and money?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the book, just aware of it.
Hopefully, Smath Community will advise ... I guess yes.
If not exactly wrt your project, otherwise sure educative.
Cheers ... Jean
Offline efus  
#30 Posted : 25 November 2020 13:47:11(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
In your opinion the book SMath for Physics by Bernard V Liengme is a good investment of time and money?

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the book, just aware of it.
Hopefully, Smath Community will advise ... I guess yes.
If not exactly wrt your project, otherwise sure educative.
Cheers ... Jean


eheh We will see, for his price I suppose that I can take the risk.
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline uni  
#31 Posted : 25 November 2020 14:34:28(UTC)
uni


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Advanced Member
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Man
Russian Federation

Was thanked: 1274 time(s) in 745 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
eheh We will see, for his price I suppose that I can take the risk.

I would recommend just looking at the video courses that are currently available:

- Simple Introduction in SMath with Tanya J. Laird;
- Curso SMath Studio CEI;
- Curso de SMath;
- Marcelo Ortiz Plá.

SMath Suite: A Primer (pdf)
SMath Suite: A Primer (documents)

SMath Suite. A Primer (Bernard Liengme).pdf (2,228kb) downloaded 19 time(s).

Edited by user 25 November 2020 14:56:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russia ☭ forever
Viacheslav N. Mezentsev
Offline Jean Giraud  
#32 Posted : 25 November 2020 15:56:38(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
eheh We will see, for his price I suppose that I can take the risk.

Very minimalist for new Smath user, not familiar with CAS software.
You will find infinitely more stuff/project in Samples Repository.
Offline efus  
#33 Posted : 25 November 2020 16:17:47(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Thank you again for all your goods advice.

I had always used an Hp50g, paper, and pen but now I really need to make this step up.

So, I will study well the video and the materials on the forum.

Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline efus  
#34 Posted : 29 November 2020 20:32:11(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Ok, I started to understand a little bit better how smath work and I really hope it will be able to do what I need because I really like it.

Now, sorry for bothering you again, I would like to have another little help.

To have the model properly working I need to add some other pieces, and I made some tentative to put these pieces is with some uhmmm "horrible" results.

Now, If you can give me feedback on what I have done on pages 2-3 would be lovely Blush

I would like to understand if what I have done is totally wrong or if there are some "grammatical" errors.

So any Help is welcome!




Modeling respiration-transpiration FRA2.sm (47kb) downloaded 14 time(s).
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline Jean Giraud  
#35 Posted : 30 November 2020 00:11:39(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
1. Forget AbsTol, RelTol ... there is no known use, specific to dn_GearsBDF
2. mr.pr not defined
3. Construct the DE piece wise
What you have is so far not same as the previous work
The original *.PDF is so much jargon ... their DE is what you should use.
I can't follow your D(t,oco).

Prova modello permeabilita.sm (159kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
Offline efus  
#36 Posted : 30 November 2020 00:22:17(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
1. Forget AbsTol, RelTol ... there is no known use, specific to dn_GearsBDF
2. mr.pr not defined
3. Construct the DE piece wise
What you have is so far not same as the previous work
The original *.PDF is so much jargon ... their DE is what you should use.
I can't follow your D(t,oco).

Prova modello permeabilita.sm (159kb) downloaded 8 time(s).


Thank's a lot for all the observations!

I thought to had to define m.pr in the stack XD my bad

Now I try to rewrite all in a more clear and comprehensible way, maybe with some comment! Sorry
Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline Jean Giraud  
#37 Posted : 30 November 2020 02:03:51(UTC)
Jean Giraud

Rank: Guest

Groups: Registered
Joined: 04/07/2015(UTC)
Posts: 6,866
Canada

Was thanked: 981 time(s) in 809 post(s)
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
Now I try to rewrite all in a more clear and comprehensible way, maybe with some comment!

... the DE system from the paper. Originally, you composed two DE.
That paper is damned hard to follow, probably a plagia itself.
Offline efus  
#38 Posted : 30 November 2020 03:25:48(UTC)
efus


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 19/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 34
Man
Italy
Location: Ireland

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: efus Go to Quoted Post
Now I try to rewrite all in a more clear and comprehensible way, maybe with some comment!

... the DE system from the paper. Originally, you composed two DE.
That paper is damned hard to follow, probably a plagia itself.


Yes, in reality, that two DE was just a first step.

What I need to do is just a little bit more complex than what is written in the first paper, because there are a lot of things that have an influence on the mass transfer in a package.

So, what I'm trying to do is to add a piece at once.

Now, in the last file there are in oco 5 pieces.

[O.2i (oxygen in the package),
C.O2i (CO2 in the package),
m.pr (amount of water that permeate through the plastic film),
W.1 (weight loss of product due to the loss of water),
HR1 (humidity in the package]

Now, unfortunately, all these factors are correlated...and more are needed for describing all the system.

I'm trying to write in a very simple way what I would like to do on the smath file, and I hope it will be possible.


Honest, more I look at the sheet and more it seems a mess to me.

I need to find a way to make it more simple

Presentation1.pdf (108kb) downloaded 11 time(s).

Edited by user 30 November 2020 03:31:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Veniamo da molto lontano e andiamo molto lontano! Palmiro Togliatti
Offline uni  
#39 Posted : 30 November 2020 09:39:42(UTC)
uni


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Advanced Member
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Man
Russian Federation

Was thanked: 1274 time(s) in 745 post(s)
It is possible to solve the system in this way, i.e. integrating each equation separately. But here you need to be very careful.

Modeling respiration-transpiration in a modified atmosphere packaging system containing blueberry 2 (uni).pdf (84kb) downloaded 8 time(s).
Modeling respiration-transpiration in a modified atmosphere packaging system containing blueberry 2 (uni).sm (19kb) downloaded 12 time(s).

Modeling respiration-transpiration in a modified atmosphere packaging system containing blueberry 2 (uni).png
Russia ☭ forever
Viacheslav N. Mezentsev
thanks 1 user thanked uni for this useful post.
on 30/11/2020(UTC)
Offline uni  
#40 Posted : 30 November 2020 09:54:05(UTC)
uni


Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Registered, Advanced Member
Joined: 10/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,494
Man
Russian Federation

Was thanked: 1274 time(s) in 745 post(s)
Euler is still good.

Modeling respiration-transpiration in a modified atmosphere packaging system containing blueberry 2 (uni).png
Russia ☭ forever
Viacheslav N. Mezentsev
thanks 1 user thanked uni for this useful post.
on 30/11/2020(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.