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Offline wheelnut  
#1 Posted : 19 August 2021 05:52:03(UTC)
wheelnut

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Hi

As of May 20 2019, there was a major update in the values of the fundamental physical constants.

Some of them became the basis for the definitions of the SI units, and are now assigned exact numerical values. These include c, k, h, e, NA, and others.

Other were updated according to the most recent measurements. This is a process that occurs every four years or so under the management of the CODATA Committee of experts. See https://codata.org/initi...ntal-physical-constants/ for more info on CODATA.

For a complete list of the updated values of the constants see https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Constants/index.html click on the frequently used constants button to see a pdf of most of the ones you need.

It would be helpful if the constants file could be updated.

Regards, Rod
thanks 1 user thanked wheelnut for this useful post.
on 19/08/2021(UTC)

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Offline wheelnut  
#2 Posted : 20 August 2021 00:56:32(UTC)
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Hi Jean

Temperature measurement was my wheelhouse before I retired last year, so I can help.

1. degrees Kelvin (meaning steps on the scale of Kelvin) no longer exist (that term was retired in 1960), but kelvins do. The kelvin is the SI unit of temperature.

2. The numbers you refer to in the table are the temperatures of the 'fixed points' (key temperature references) defined by the International Temperature Scale of 1990 - ITS-90. The temperatures are normally tabulated giving both degree Celsius and kelvin temperatures. oC=9/5*K+32.

3. There are internationally agreed reference functions for the response of Standard Platinum Resistance Thermometers (SPRTs), Industrial platinum resistance thermometers (IPRTs, aka RTD), and for thermocouples (see https://www.bipm.org/en/...ct/guides-to-thermometry guide on Thermocouples Part I for the reference functions).

4. I'm not aware of recognized reference functions for other types of thermometer you mention, though there may be manufacturer's tables.

5. Is there a place for a Temperature addin? I've no idea how to do it, love to learn, but I can help.

cheers, Rod
Offline wheelnut  
#3 Posted : 21 August 2021 03:36:41(UTC)
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Hi Jean
Probably some clarification is required….you seem to be using the information incorrectly (I am one of the BIPM experts, so I know this stuff inside out).

The ITS-90 temperature scale is a recipe for temperature measurements.

Step 1: Manufacture. Make a standard platinum resistance thermometer (SPRT) using the purest available platinum wire – there are electrical tests the finished thermometer must pass. These 25 ohm thermometers are remarkable and very different from the usual 100 ohm industrial thermometers, and out of the box and without any calibration they all agree within a couple of hundredths of a degree. There are only a few recognised manufacturers of these thermometers.

Step 2: Calibration. Record the electrical resistance of the thermometer at the reference temperatures specified by ITS-90 within your temperature range of interest (e.g. 0 oC to 420 oC requires 3 measurements). These values are then used to calculate a simple correction equation (an interpolation).

Step 3: Use. After the corrections are applied, you can convert the corrected values of the electrical resistance measured at any temperature to the temperature reading using a standard reference function. The reference function is the complicated polynomial given in the information you have (actually, there are two polynomials that meet a 0 oC). It passes through all the reference points exactly. The reference function was based on a least-squares fit to hundreds of exacting measurements made in the few years leading up to 1990 when the scale was published.

For temperatures below O oC, the corrected measurements with are reproducible (different thermometers, different people, different resistance measuring instruments, measuring the same temperature) to about 0.2 mK. Above O oC, the performance gradually deteriorates but they are good to about 1 mK up to 960 oC, though a lot of expertise is required to make accurate measurements at the higher temperatures.

For temperatures between about -250 oC and +960 oC, this is how temperature is currently defined by the SI. The reference function, and probably also the interpolating equations, could usefully be added to SMath.

If you send a PM with your email address, I can send more detailed information. The BIPM information is a bit dry and confusing for most who have not seen it before.

Cheers
Rod

Offline wheelnut  
#4 Posted : 23 August 2021 03:52:00(UTC)
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Hi Jean

We are still talking about different things.

There are a bunch of different reference functions used in thermometry.

1. For 25 ohm standard platinum resistance thermometers (SPRT) – This is the function defined by the BIPM and used internationally to define the international temperature scale. The data you have discussed comes from this standard, and it is what I discussed above.

2. For 100 ohm industrial platinum resistance thermometers (IPRT). The reference function is primarily a guideline for manufacturers, but it is also the function used in practically every electronic resistance thermometer worldwide. These functions are agreed and defined by international standardising organisations like the ISO, IEC, etc.

3. For the dozen or so thermocouples (Types A, C, E, K, N, L R, T, S, and a couple of others) there are also agreed reference functions. They are primarily a guideline for manufacturers, but also included in every electronic thermometer using thermocouples. Also agreed and defined by ISO, IEC, and other standardising organisations.

It seems to me that you have mixed up your discussion of 1. and 2.

Cheers
Rod


Offline wheelnut  
#5 Posted : 23 August 2021 07:59:31(UTC)
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Hi Jean

Sometime in the next few days I'll work on an updated file for the fundamental physical constants. I'll post it on this forum so someone more expert than me can arrange to have it included in the SMath downloads.

Once I've done that, I'll work on a update of the Temperature units file to include the various temperature reference functions. I'll include text explaining the origin and purpose of the functions. That will take a bit longer.

best regards
Rod
Offline wheelnut  
#6 Posted : 24 August 2021 00:12:26(UTC)
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Hi Jean
For standard platinum resistance thermometers (SPRTs) you can download a copy of the ITS-90 definition at https://www.bipm.org/en/.../cct/temperature-scales.

The reference functions for the Standard Platinum Resistance Ranges are in section 3.3. You can check that you have the functions correct by substituting the values of T90 or Wr(T90) from Table 1.

For Industrial platinum resistance thermometers the reference function is simple, the equation is
R(t)=R(0 oC)[1+A.t+Bt^2+Ct^3.(t-100)]
where
R(0 oC) = 100 ohms
A = 3.908 x10^-3
B=-5.8 x 10^-7
C= 0 for t > 0 oC or C = 4.27 x 10^-12 for t < 0 oC.

I can check the functions once you've finished.
Cheers
Rod
Offline wheelnut  
#7 Posted : 25 August 2021 00:23:42(UTC)
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Hi Jean

Yes, it the Callendar-Van Dussen formula is still used for industrial resistance thermometers.

Yes, the BIPM reference function for 25 ohm standard platinum resistance thermometers (SPRTs) is different. You do not need data for the SPRT function, it is already defined.

Rod
Offline wheelnut  
#8 Posted : 25 August 2021 11:12:16(UTC)
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Hi Jean

Three files attached

> an SMath file with updated constants
> A pdf Wall poster with all of the fundamental constants listed
> the pdf from BIPM describing the platinum resistance part of ITS-90

Cheers
Rod

New physical constant file.sm (33kb) downloaded 22 time(s). Constants Wall Poster.pdf (69kb) downloaded 16 time(s). Guide_ITS-90_5_SPRT_2021 (2).pdf (1,126kb) downloaded 15 time(s).
thanks 1 user thanked wheelnut for this useful post.
on 25/08/2021(UTC)
Offline wheelnut  
#9 Posted : 28 August 2021 07:24:48(UTC)
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Hi Jean

See attached file - this is how temperature under ITS-90 is defined. Anything else is wrong.

ITS-90 (1).pdf (5,450kb) downloaded 25 time(s).

cheers
Rod
Offline Jean Giraud  
#10 Posted : 31 August 2021 16:01:48(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: wheelnut Go to Quoted Post
Hi Jean
See attached file - this is how temperature under ITS-90 is defined.Anything else is wrong.

Rod, thanks for the 78th 1989 PDF.
I deleted Anything else is wrong
As part of Chemical Engineering curricular, one day "Industrial Temperature"
Students have for use and to comfort themselves:
1. subcryogenic GR50-300
2. types T,J thermocouples
3. SPRT eit90
They are waiting for you to plot the red BIPM [9b]
Cheers ... Jean

Page3 BIPM 1989.sm (35kb) downloaded 12 time(s).

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