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Offline Razonar  
#1 Posted : 28 March 2021 05:43:00(UTC)
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Hi. It may be a minor problem and cannot even be considered a bug, but the value of h = 6.6261 * 10 ^ -34 has far fewer figures than are necessary to work with the new SI kilogram and meter definitions, as shown in https://www.bipm.org/metrology/mass/units.html

Thanks in advance.
Alvaro

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Offline overlord  
#2 Posted : 29 March 2021 20:17:02(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Razonar Go to Quoted Post
Hi. It may be a minor problem and cannot even be considered a bug, but the value of h = 6.6261 * 10 ^ -34 has far fewer figures than are necessary to work with the new SI kilogram and meter definitions, as shown in https://www.bipm.org/metrology/mass/units.html

Thanks in advance.
Alvaro

Nice catch Alvaro.

Andrey may have taken the value from 2006.
https://www.theochem.ru.nl/~pwormer/Knowino/knowino.org/wiki/Planck%27s_constant.html

But if you click the NIST link from the page above you can see latest value.
https://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Value?h

Regards
thanks 1 user thanked overlord for this useful post.
on 29/03/2021(UTC)
Offline Razonar  
#3 Posted : 29 March 2021 21:02:38(UTC)
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Hi Overlord. Thanks for the reference.

Thanks for the reference. There you can see a new category of constants of nature: that of "defined constants". The link is here.

The point is that they are no longer constant with an associated error like any other, but are defined as exact values, with which to deduce the value of the kilogram, the second and the meter.

The same happens with Avograd's Number, which now is not the number of molecules in a liter of ideal gas under standard conditions, but is an exact amount with which it seems that the standard pressure and temperature should be deduced, and not the other way.

The list of the new exact values is:
  • Avogadro constant
  • Boltzmann constant
  • elementary charge
  • hyperfine transition frequency of Cs-133
  • luminous efficacy
  • Planck constant
  • reduced Planck constant
  • speed of light in vacuum
  • standard acceleration of gravity
  • standard atmosphere
  • standard-state pressure


Best regards.
Alvaro.
Offline Davide Carpi  
#4 Posted : 29 March 2021 21:30:54(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: overlord Go to Quoted Post
Andrey may have taken the value from 2006.
https://www.theochem.ru.nl/~pwormer/Knowino/knowino.org/wiki/Planck%27s_constant.html

But if you click the NIST link from the page above you can see latest value.
https://physics.nist.gov/cgi-bin/cuu/Value?h

Regards


Probably.

Currently the constant is set as 6.6260689633 E-34 {kg*m^2}/s while from NIST link it should be 6.62607015 E-34

Something to update.

Edited by user 29 March 2021 21:44:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Razonar  
#5 Posted : 31 March 2021 07:36:03(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Razonar Go to Quoted Post
Hi. It may be a minor problem and cannot even be considered a bug, but the value of h = 6.6261 * 10 ^ -34 has far fewer figures than are necessary to work with the new SI kilogram and meter definitions,

Thanks Alvaro, damned puzzling considering the entropic universe.
Smath displays -15 D but takes up to -^316. It has nothing to do
with Smath, rather with convention to display results.
On that time definition, I can't reconciliate with myself.
NOT every minutes have 60 sec.
So, the isolated user in the Mouc-Mouc island has to have a lab
to makes himself a meter instead of importing one at very high
original accuracy ... He has one hidden in the barn.
Alvaro, for so long we are Collabs, are you trying to make me not sleep ?
Take care, stay we us ... Jean.


I do not have the pleasure of meeting anyone from the Muoc-Muoc islands, despite having lived for a long time in towns and cities that are surely smaller than those islands, or with names much more difficult to pronounce and that perhaps can be very funny for some, but with very beautiful meanings. I am from Uruguay (river of painted birds, in Guaraní ), I lived in Paysandú (we go where the father who listens is, in a mixture of Portuguese and Guaraní ), in Montevideo (sixth mount of god or what I see, where sixth is VI, in Spanish), in La Barra de Maldonado (such a small place where the name simply refers to a bar, which is a type of coastal geographic formation, and Maldonado is the last name of a lieutenant who was left there in 1530), Coatzacoalcos (in México, place where Quetzalcóatl, which is the feathered serpent, is hidden or enclosed, in náhuatl), among other endearing sites. So I don't usually make fun of the names of places where people are used to living, and I have enormous respect for people's cultural origins.

And yes, you are right, the people of Muoc-Muoc Island will have to buy new instruments for their laboratories, now that the standard kilograms can no longer be used. You can read it, for example, in this article in Nature magazine, how the people of NIST celebrate that no one will have to go to Paris if they need to carry out a precision measurement, and instead they will have to turn to NIST to buy new equipment for balances that are compatible with the new definition.

My first reference to the change is to the BIMP pages which is (or was) the official site for the International System of measurements, but they are difficult to find as Google seems to prefer the NIST pages making it seem like a more authoritative source.

And the people who comment on this news and publish it in magazines like Nature make mistakes as incredible as the one they clarify at the bottom of the page:

"Correction 16 November 2018: The headline of this story originally misstated when the last major overhaul of scientific units took place. It was in 1875, not at the time of the French Revolution."

In other words, those who wrote the article or those who reviewed it in Nature for publication have the slightest notion of history, but I am sure that the cultural, political and economic implications do. So, la France not only loose the 0 meridian at Paris, and Greenwich got it, also looses the market of very accurate measures.

Best regards.
Alvaro.

Edited by user 31 March 2021 07:37:55(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Razonar  
#6 Posted : 31 March 2021 15:44:38(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
... and in your Country [Iguassu] ...


Neither Iguazú (large water in Guaraní ) is a country, nor is it mine.

Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post

Mouc Mouc [in native dialect] islands exist for true. Two inhabitated big stones dropped by Aliens long time ago in the mid of a lake in Quebec.


Dialect? What dialect? Please stop disparaging, I don't know what language it will be in, but don't reduce it to dialect. I wrote about words in Guaraní, Nahuatl, Spanish, Portuguese, and you call an ancient language "native dialect", please have a little respect for the people who speak it. And if they believe that there were aliens there, I don't see any reason to make fun of that too; at least it makes me more consistent that eating apples is wrong but you do it because a talking snake told you to do it. Ah, because just as they are denied that they have a language, they are also denied that they have a complete religion system, but some people are usually only said to have "beliefs".

Finally, this is my last answer of any of your posts.

Alvaro.
Offline Davide Carpi  
#7 Posted : 31 March 2021 18:40:17(UTC)
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MODERATION: I ask anyone to stay on-topic and avoid judgements on other cultures. Inappropriate parts or messages will be edited/deleted to fullfill this request.


Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
So, the isolated user in the Mouc-Mouc island has to have a lab
to makes himself a meter instead of importing one at very high
original accuracy ... He has one hidden in the barn.


I read *Mouc-Mouc_Island* as imaginary placeholder for whatever remote place around the world, I missed something?


Originally Posted by: Jean Giraud Go to Quoted Post
Mouc Mouc [in native dialect] islands exist for true. Two inhabitated big stones dropped by Aliens long time ago in the mid of a lake in Quebec.


As general rule on internet would be better to add an /s to clarify when something is intended as sarcastic or a joke, however better to avoid when out of context.

Edited by user 31 March 2021 19:18:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline Razonar  
#8 Posted : 31 March 2021 21:11:43(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Davide Carpi Go to Quoted Post
...
I read *Mouc-Mouc_Island* as imaginary placeholder for whatever remote place around the world, I missed something?
...


Why could the name of a real geographic place be taken imaginary? It is common to make fun of indigenous geographic names that make use of reduplication (explained in wikipedia here). If one consults a list of geographic names that are formed in this way, it is true that there is no site in Europe that uses it, or very few (an example of those names is here). But just being common doesn't make it a less offensive practice.

It is also common for the change in standards to be associated with some kind of business in the middle. Steering wheel to the right, or to the left? England had to manufacture cars with the possibility of inserting it on either side, which made its production more expensive. He recovered a lot by changing the standard of beef cuts as he was the only one who could sell the new machinery to the carnic industry around the world. New standard kilogram?, then there will be some business involved. In the article in the magazine Nature, in addition to taking the limelight from Paris (to transfer it to NIST)

"For the BIPM, which was founded in 1875 to host the physical kilogram and metre standards, the SI revolution is bittersweet. Speakers at the meeting cheerfully quipped that there is no need to go to Paris any more. The BIPM now hopes to forge a role making comparisons between worldwide realizations"

It also gives indications that indeed, the habitants of Mouc Mouc islands and other small places will have to buy new equipment from the promoters of the change

NIST and national laboratories in the United Kingdom and Germany are all working on cheaper, table-top Kibble balances so that companies and smaller laboratories might one day be able to realize masses themselves.


So, the "worldwide realizations" came from very reduced places, but don't warry, they are "cheaper".

Trivial? Who cares, if almost no one speaks those languages? The article also says

"Under the new International System of Units (known simply as SI), all measures will be described using fundamental constants of nature"

Not anymore SI from French Systéme international d'unités, the new system is "simply as SI".

Best regards.
Alvaro.
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